Huldra Forsvant (Theodor Kittelsen)

Huldra Forsvant (Theodor Kittelsen)
Huldra Forsvant (Theodor Kittelsen)

Tuesday, October 19, 2010

St. Mary

And all this time I thought I was counted as a saint because I have put my trust in Jesus.

But no, as I have never actually performed a miracle, I'm not one, and must pray to, and make an idol of some dead person rather than God.



Pedro said...

can we open a discussion on the validity of 'sainthood' in the church?
This woman obviously did some great things.
The Miracles I am not so sure about.
What does the bible say about saints?

Ben McLaughlin said...


The Bible says all Christians are saints. Not because they are greet, but because Jesus stands in their place, and He is great.

People can do miracles, that's not iompossible. Jesus sent out His disciples, who went around healing people, because He equipped them to.

But the issue is, is that it was always meant to be about Jesus. they were healing in His name, and they were just vessels.

With all this Catholic saithood business, they are making an idol out of a regular person, which the Bible says is wrong. Prayer goes to God and God alone.

A person can do a million miracles in Jesus' name, and live a fantastic, seemingly blameless life. But they are still just a person, who can't do anything to save themself, let alone anybody else.

Pedro said...

Fair enough.
I agree on all accounts.
Is it just the Catholic church then that deems it necessary to elevate these personas (cause they are all dead) to and identity above the rest of us.
Why is the bible so overlooked by The Catholic church?
Why does no one question these things?

Ben McLaughlin said...

I don't know THAT much about Catholicism, but from what I gather, all of this stems from the basic set up of the thing.

You've got this Head Honcho pope guy who is apparently better than anyone else, and who has the power to pardon you, and do whatever else. Whereas the WHOLE premise of Christianity is that we no longer need any human go-between.

It's crazy that they supposedly believe the same Bible, because it is all so condemning of raising ANY body up in that way, besides Jesus. And nowhere in the Bible does it suggest we should pray to 'the saints'.

It's understandable though, when you remember that until very recently Catholic services were conducted in another language, the Bible being read out in Latin, I think. So I guess it's hard for a congregation to get the real gist if they are being read to in a foreign language..

Whereas, the protestant reformation was about taking the Bible to the people, translating it so the everyman could read it for himself. And that was like, 500 years ago or something.

Pedro said...

Is protestant the same as Church of England? Or Anglican?
So many different bloody sects of what is or should be essentially the same thing!!!

Ben McLaughlin said...

I don't know a great deal about all this, but reading a bit just now has got me interested to read more.

From what I gather, in the middle ages, you've got the Catholics, kind of dominating everything, with a lot of dodgy stuff going on. Lot's of money and taxes going to the pope in Rome. etc etc.

These guys in Germany then got up in arms and wanted it to change, and tried to bring reform. The Reformation. Bible translation, dethroning of the pope etc. They were the Protestants because they were 'protesting' what was going on.

Then this movement moved throughout Europe, and eventually over to England. the Church of England, (or Anglican church) begins.

That's as far as I've gotten.

Christine said...

Hey guys,

If you're interested, there is a fascinating discussion taking place on a thread on the Syd Ang site regarding Mary Mackillop's sainthood. Both Catholics and Protestants are contributing. I've found the discussion helpful in seeing the differences between the 2 understandings.
See here:

Ben McLaughlin said...

Cool, thanks Christine

Pedro said...

Thanks Christine...All good reading.